Bloggings by boz: Open thread, six days to go

Open thread, six days to go

10/29/2008 Posted by boz

This is an open comment thread. Feel free to discuss the U.S. election or any Latin America topics you want.

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44 comments:

boz said...: I predicted the Obama win two years ago, back when everyone was calling Clinton inevitable for the Democratic nomination. I was one of the early donors to his campaign back in early 2007. Next week is going to feel really good.; 6:30 AM
Paul said...: "Next week is going to feel really good."

Not for everyone. :); 8:47 AM
Ulises Jorge Bidó said...: Boz, here's my rant:

”…I was one of the early donors to his campaign back in early 2007. Next week is going to feel really good.”

At least your donation was traceable. How come the chief proponent of a “Google for Government“ allowed that to happen? Boz, as much as I admire your work here in this blog, I just cannot take your word that Obama is someone to be trusted. By the way, if he is elected, I will give him the benefit of the doubt (after all, I was wrong about Bill Clinton).

:-); 9:52 AM
Paul said...: You're obviously a racist, Ulises, for even questioning The One's pure-as-the-driven-snow commitment to healing the planet.; 10:13 AM
Ulises Jorge Bidó said...: This post has been removed by the author.; 10:59 AM
Ulises Jorge Bidó said...: Well, before this thread degenerates into partisan bitch slapping, why don’t we have a little fun while we can? Check this.
I don’t agree with the message, but I found it really funny. Question: Are those the same guys as the original ad?; 11:01 AM
leftside said...: What will be the first noticable policy shift of the Obama administration in Latin America? Cuba is the obvious answer, but I think he will be too scared of offending people during his first year, so I think something more intangible and symbolic like USAID reform. I would say an increase in foreign aid, but he made clear that would be one of the first things to be shelved because of the economic crisis.; 1:01 PM
boz said...: What will be the first noticable policy shift of the Obama administration in Latin America?

He's going to shut down Gitmo. The announcement will be made within the first weeks of his administration, although the whole process will take a few months administratively. It's not directly Latin America policy, but it does affect our image in the region.

With the Summit in April, I imagine we'll see some other initiative for the region fairly early.; 1:06 PM
Paul said...: "He's going to shut down Gitmo."

And bring terrorists here. I predict the Islamic savages will miss their cushy Gitmo confines while enjoying their new ability to proselytize.; 1:50 PM
leftside said...: I predict the Islamic savages will miss their cushy Gitmo confines while enjoying their new ability to proselytize.

Yeah, they'll miss the 105 degree heat and lack of Geneva Convention protections for sure. And yeah I can imagine there will be legions of US citizens who come under their sway once they are located closer to us. Count Paul as once of the last Gitmo backers in America.; 4:37 PM
Paul said...: "Count Paul as once of the last Gitmo backers in America."

The tears on Leftside's pillow for Islamic terrorists, and all terrorists who hate America, is touching. He'd be a tad more convincing, however, if his compassion for prisoners in Cuba extended to the non-US side of the island where real abuse goes on.; 5:06 PM
leftside said...: Paul, your shedding a tear for the closure of Gitmo is what is fascinating. Accusing me of shedding tears for terrorists is just plain sad. And as soon as you can show me evidence of Cuban torture compared to that we know occured at Gitmo and other US-run facilities in recent years, I will respond to your other absurd point.

There is a new harrowing piece in the NY Times about Colombia's murder of (nearly 100) civillians that has come to light in recent weeks. Almost half of the units suspected in the killings were trained by US forces. Even though Uribe has admitted the findings are true, the State Department claims that its "private contractors" have not yet reviewed the files and therefore has not taken any action to assure we are not subsidizing the murder of more poor young men.; 5:14 PM
Paul said...: "And as soon as you can show me evidence of Cuban torture compared to that we know occured at Gitmo and other US-run facilities in recent years, I will respond to your other absurd point."

Yeah, you'll reply by saying people like Armando Valladares are liars. According to HRW, "Over the past forty years, Cuba has developed a highly effective machinery of repression. The denial of basic civil and political rights is written into Cuban law. In the name of legality, armed security forces, aided by state-controlled mass organizations, silence dissent with heavy prison terms, threats of prosecution, harassment, or exile. Cuba uses these tools to restrict severely the exercise of fundamental human rights of expression, association, and assembly. The conditions in Cuba's prisons are inhuman, and political prisoners suffer additional degrading treatment and torture. In recent years, Cuba has added new repressive laws and continued prosecuting nonviolent dissidents while shrugging off international appeals for reform and placating visiting dignitaries with occasional releases of political prisoners."

You worship the murderous bearded tyrant who rules the innocent inhabitants of his island prison with an iron fist. And then you have the temerity to whine about the treatment of barbarians who would slit all our throats if given the chance.; 5:34 PM
Fabio said...: McCain has a proven track record of being able to reach across the aisle and GET THINGS DONE. He's shoe-horned into playing the conservative in this two-party system of ours. Little has been made, for instance, of the fact that Kerry thought long and hard about asking McCain to be his running mate. We are talking about a man who is capable of co-sponsoring a comprehensive immigration bill with Edward Kennedy, of all people. With all of Obama's talk about "post-partisanship," there is zero track record that backs up this rhetoric.

While it is frustrating to me as a staunch pro-life Republican, I totally get it when it comes to Obama's appeal. The Republicans do not deserve another turn at the stick, and Obama is creating excitement and hope on a scale no one has seen before ($150 million in one month? Are you kidding me?).

I don't personally believe that the hoopla is rooted in substance, but I, for one, will not be in need of anyone to talk me down off the roof after Election Day. Things can't possibly get materially worse. Besides, if Warren Buffet endorses him, how bad can he be?; 7:54 PM
Randinho said...: Ulises,

Yes, it's the same guys as in the original ad.

This message is for Bruno who posts here under |3run0.

Loved your appearance on Fantastico! Try the salmon grilled with fresh rosemary, which you might know better as alecrim.; 9:54 PM
|3run0 said...: Even though I prefer Obama, I kind of like McCain personally; but the republican party is to far gone to be trusted with government now. The lunatic fringe simply has too much influence. After a few years in the wilderness, perhaps they'll find some Clinton figure and become relevant again.; 10:08 PM
|3run0 said...: Hi Randy, and thank you! I did sprinkle some thyme ('tomilho') and white pepper on the Salmon; but never tried rosemary.; 10:12 PM
boz said...: I kind of like McCain personally

I used to like and have a lot or respect for John McCain (I still respect his previous service). Even though I've known I was voting Obama for a long time, I looked forward to an election between the two, who I saw as the two best candidates from their parties.

I've been overwhelmingly disappointed with McCain this election. "Erratic" only begins to describe his personality. The selection of Palin was outrageously bad. The descent into the mud-slinging politics has gone beyond the norm in US elections. I've always disagreed with McCain on issues, but thought he'd still be a good leader; I no longer do. I really wonder where the John McCain from 2000 has gone.; 8:53 AM
Ulises Jorge Bidó said...: "The selection of Palin was outrageously bad."

Boz,

For once I would like to have a decent explanation of why Palin selection was not a good move. Can you provide one?; 9:54 AM
leftside said...: Ulises, have you not watched any of Palin's interviews? She is clearly out of her league.; 12:15 PM
leftside said...: Paul, why don't you read the "torture" section in the very 1999 Cuba HRW report you cited (but neglected to link). Then tell me if you think there is any evidence there of anything you would consider torture. I would be most interested considering your enlightened approach to the way the US treats people in Gitmo and Abu-Graib.

The only specifics offered is the "phychological pain" from allegedly holding some inmates incommunicado for some undefined period of time (Cuba maintains the right of family visits to all its prisoners - so that charage is actually BS), as well as trying some prisoners twice (for different crimes, so that is BS). They also mention and alleged "beatings" with no names or facts and despite teh fact that everyone knows the Revolution has never tolerated such barbarianism. Meanwhile the US has been holding 4 Cuban anti-terrorism heroes incommunicado for 7 years, denying 9 visas from their wives to visit... and beatings happen every day here.

Here is what HRW has said more recently about bogus allegations of Cuban torture:

...the (UN's Human Rights) Commission's initial decision to review human rights in Cuba was due in large part to exaggerated U.S. charges of ongoing political executions, disappearances and torture, it became difficult to sustain that scrutiny when the U.N. delegation to Cuba found no evidence to support those allegations

And yes, Valladares is a lier, a former terrorist who placed bombs in cigarette boxes and human rights hypocrite. In other words a hero in Paul's eye.; 1:21 PM
Ulises Jorge Bidó said...: Leftside,

Joe Biden claimed that FDR was on TV during the market crash in 1929. Joe Biden told Missouri state Sen. Chuck Graham, who is in a wheelchair to "Stand up". Joe Biden in 2006 had a plan to split Iraq in 3 different regions that was rejected by all 3 major etnic groups in that country (by the way, he voted in favor of the war). Joe Biden said during the debate with Sara Palin that the U.S. and France "kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon."

I bet that I could find more examples, since Biden is known for his gaffes. But since everyone knows him and Palin is basically new in the national scene, he's excused and Lord Obama is a genius for picking him. By the way, in term of experience Palin has more than Barack Obama (and he's running for president) and even more experienced than John Edwards (former trial lawyer, first term senator) when he ran for president and was later picked by John Kerry as his VP in 2004.

I agree, the interview with Couric was awful. The Charlie Gibson interview was pretty bad too. But I'd love to see Lord Obama being grilled the same way as she was. Here's an interview that he had with Charlie Gibson last june:

How does it feel to break a glass ceiling?
How does it feel to “win”?
How does your family feel about your “winning” breaking a glass ceiling?
Who will be your VP?
Should you choose Hillary Clinton as VP?
Will you accept public finance?
What issues is your campaign about?
Will you visit Iraq?
Will you debate McCain at a town hall?
What did you think of your competitor’s [Clinton] speech?

Yeah, really tough; 1:51 PM
Ulises Jorge Bidó said...: Right on Cue, here's comes Time Magazine to reinforce my point (emphasis mine):

Hidin' Biden: Reining In a Voluble No. 2

"While his windy, off-point pontification was the stuff of legend among his Senate colleagues, Biden is now leashed to a teleprompter even when he is talking in a high school gym that is three-quarters empty. The exposure hound who in recent years appeared more often than any other guest on the Sunday talk shows is a virtual stranger to the small band of reporters on his plane — less accessible than even Sarah Palin is to her traveling pack of bloodhounds."; 3:45 PM
Paul said...: "..despite teh fact that everyone knows the Revolution has never tolerated such barbarianism."

"Everyone knows." Every white non-Spanish speaking gringo who reads English Granma everyday anyway. The scores of testimony by actual refugees don't count, I guess. God, what a clown you are. Do you ever question any of the propaganda that comes out Castro's filthy pie hole?

"a former terrorist who placed bombs in cigarette boxes and human rights hypocrite."

Leftside links to some allegations by the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Cuba, who offers zero proof, of course. And Leftside, like the Marxist moron he is, swallow every bit of it.

You're like a cartoon, Leftside.; 10:43 PM
Paul said...: "The descent into the mud-slinging politics has gone beyond the norm in US elections."

Oh, you mean like when Obama pulls out the race card? "...did I mention he's black?"; 10:47 PM
boz said...: For once I would like to have a decent explanation of why Palin selection was not a good move. Can you provide one?

I believe she's the least qualified vice-presidential nominee in my lifetime. I'm sorry you don't see that. Polls show most Americans agree with me.

It's not that she lacks some mystical "experience" factor (Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagan didn't have any foreign policy "experience" when they were elected). It's that she hasn't even thought about the big issues, particularly on foreign policy. I expect presidents to be surrounded by smart advisors, but they still must have some basic foreign policy philosophies that they can rely upon in making judgments. Palin, from what I've seen and read, far more than Reagan or Clinton or Bush or Obama, is unqualified on that point.; 8:19 AM
Ulises Jorge Bidó said...: Boz,

I’m sorry, but it looks like you’re not in the mood to offer a “decent explanation”. I already know that you believe that “she’s the least qualified” VP nominee in your lifetime. I asked about John Edwards and got a “polls show most Americans agree with me” answer and frankly that’s not what I was expecting based on your previous work here.

You should have stuck with the “McCain the erratic” narrative, it has more traction.

Cavuto: McCain's Got the Courage, Not the Conviction

“Not that Barack Obama's positions are any more encouraging...but they are consistent.

I don't like the left-leaning, spread-the-wealth approach, but it's a consistent approach and the Democratic nominee has never veered from it.

You can accept him and his views or not.

With John McCain I’m not so sure.

But I am sure I'm not the only one confused.

...confused by a man who says he hates government spending, but supports pushing $300 billion to bail out folks behind on their mortgage.”; 9:56 AM
Anonymous said...: Boz,

I've been in half a dozen LA countries in the past two years for extended periods (including living in one for the past year) in political and foreign policy settings and the Gitmo issue can't have come up more than 3-4 times, and I'm being very generous, since I can't really recall a single time it has happened.; 11:34 AM
boz said...: and the Gitmo issue can't have come up more than 3-4 times

The Gitmo issue is about the larger tone and narrative of US foreign policy. I agree that very few people would point to Gitmo as the key issue they are concerned about, but it does matter in how the world, including Latin America and the Caribbean, perceives the US. To that end, it's good to know that both McCain and Obama are committed to closing it if they are elected.; 11:39 AM
Paul said...: "..but they still must have some basic foreign policy philosophies that they can rely upon in making judgments."

She wants to kill terrorists and win the war in Iraq. She wants to help our Colombian allies. She doesn't base her outlook on whether our other "allies" will look at us cross-eyed. Is that basic enough? Obama's sage advice has always been to run away in Iraq. Had we followed his advice, the surge would not have happened, the US would have been humiliated, and Iraq would have been left an Iranian/Al Qaeda bloodbath. His Latin America policy is a mishmash of handouts, protectionism, and platitudes. Whoever wrote his Latin America paper for him even spells Colombia with a "u" at one point. He admits he surrounded himself with "Marxist professors" in college. It's unclear whether he has any longtime friends who aren't either criminals or anti-American.

Also, it's an important distinction that Hopey McChange is running for the #1 spot while Palin is going for #2.

"..but it does matter in how the world, including Latin America and the Caribbean, perceives the US."

So we should bring terrorists like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed into the system where they can preach their poison to other inmates, and scum lawyers like Lynne Stewart can get them off...so the world will like us better. They won't actually lift a finger for us, just like us better.; 12:39 PM
boz said...: McCain supporter former Secretary of State Eagleburger agrees with me (and a majority of the US) that Sarah Palin isn't ready to manage a crisis as president. When asked, his answer was "of course not."; 6:31 PM
Frank_IBC said...: And what crises has Obama managed, in the three years and nine months of government experience?; 7:40 PM
Ulises Jorge Bidó said...: Boz,

You’ve already established that you will not give me a straight answer to my original question, much to my disappointment. I can understand your spin in favor of Obama, his thin resume notwistanding. He’s your candidate so nothing wrong with your partisan fervor. What I have a real hard time understanding is your intellectual laziness justifying your statements about Sarah Palin (“outrageously bad”, “least qualified vice-presidential nominee in my lifetime”).

By the way, I saw Eagleburger remarks this morning in The Huffington Post. While I agree that his words were not exactly a powerful endorsement of the Alaska governor, he’s not exactly agreeing with your “assessment” (emphasis mine):

'Asked by the host whether Palin could step in during a time of crisis, Eagleburger reverted to sarcasm before leveling the harsh blow.

"It is a very good question," he said, pausing a few seconds, then adding with a chuckle: "I'm being facetious here. Look, of course not."

Eagleburger explained: "I don't think at the moment she is prepared to take over the reins of the presidency. I can name for you any number of other vice presidents who were not particularly up to it either. So the question, I think, is can she learn and would she be tough enough under the circumstances if she were asked to become president, heaven forbid that that ever takes place?

"Give her some time in the office and I think the answer would be, she will be [pause] adequate. I can't say that she would be a genius in the job. But I think she would be enough to get us through a four year... well I hope not... get us through whatever period of time was necessary. And I devoutly hope that it would never be tested."'; 7:46 PM
Randinho said...: For once I would like to have a decent explanation of why Palin selection was not a good move.

A generally incurious nature. Crony capitalism on the not yet in existence ng pipeline. Being cited by her own state for abusing her authority in the troopergate scandal. An inability to understand that the first amendment protects speech from government interference, not speech from criticism. Her ability to throw her mentors to the dogs (e.g., she was a board member of Ted Stevens 527). Her persistent lying about her support for the bridge to nowhere. Bragging about her role as mayor of Wasilla, while spending $15,000,000 for a sports arena in a city that lacks a sewage plant. Leaving Wasilla $22,000,000 in debt when she left office.

That's just for starters.; 10:39 PM
Ulises Jorge Bidó said...: Randinho,

“A generally incurious nature”? Pretty objective of your part I would say. “Crony capitalism” on the pipeline? That was reported before she became governor and then....

"Mrs. Palin ran against the secret deal, and vowed to put the pipeline back out for competitive, transparent, bidding. She railed against cozy politics. Mr. Murkowski ran on his unpopular pipeline deal. The oil industry warned the state would never get its project without his leadership. Mrs. Palin walloped him in the primary and won office in late 2006. Around this time, news broke of a federal probe that would show oil executives had bribed lawmakers to support the Murkowski tax changes."

BTW, you are right, Wasilla has no sewage treatment plant. Neither the City of Palmer, both located in Alaska Matanuska-Susitna Borough (equivalent to a county in most U.S. states). Over there, sewage treatment currently is done by septic systems that are trucked periodically to Anchorage and it is a Borough responsibility, not the city of Wasilla's. I live in the city of Kissimmee, FL and here too the city has no jurisdiction regarding sewage disposal, the county of Osceola does (I pay my bills to the Toho Water Authority in case you want to check my sources).

So Randinho, thanks for bringing up another example of the “objective” analysis that is currently being done by the media and opinion makers regarding Palin's experience.; 11:48 PM
Frank_IBC said...: Her ability to throw her mentors to the dogs (e.g., she was a board member of Ted Stevens 527)

On the other hand, there is the Reverend Wright, and Obama's own "typically white" grandmother.

An inability to understand that the first amendment protects speech from government interference, not speech from criticism

Obama allies, such as the prosecutors of St. Louis City and County, have tried to suppress criticism of him by claiming that criticism of him is "hate speech" and "libel" that must be prosecuted.; 10:56 AM
|3run0 said...: She is also for tossing terrorists/cylons out of the airlock. Or was that Roslyn?; 12:24 PM
Randinho said...: Crony capitalism” on the pipeline? That was reported before she became governor and then...

You need to update your sources. My story is a month and a half after yours:

Gov. Sarah Palin's signature accomplishment — a contract to build a 1,715-mile pipeline to bring natural gas from Alaska to the Lower 48 — emerged from a flawed bidding process that narrowed the field to a company with ties to her administration, an Associated Press investigation shows.

[...]

In interviews and a review of records, the AP found:

—Instead of creating a process that would attract many potential builders, Palin slanted the terms away from an important group — the global energy giants that own the rights to the gas.

—Despite promises and legal guidance not to talk directly with potential bidders, Palin had meetings or phone calls with nearly every major candidate, including TransCanada.

—The leader of Palin's pipeline team had been a partner at a lobbying firm where she worked on behalf of a TransCanada subsidiary. Also, that woman's former business partner at the lobbying firm was TransCanada's lead private lobbyist on the pipeline deal, interacting with legislators in the weeks before the vote to grant TransCanada the contract. Plus, a former TransCanada executive served as an outside consultant to Palin's pipeline team.

—Under a different set of rules four years earlier, TransCanada had offered to build the pipeline without a state subsidy; under Palin, the company could receive a maximum $500 million.

Dig a little deeper next time.

On the sewage system comment I note that you elided this part of my comment:

Bragging about her role as mayor of Wasilla, while spending $15,000,000 for a sports arena

And you completely ignored this:

Leaving Wasilla $22,000,000 in debt when she left office.

Based on that it appears to me that you hardly have the moral authority to lecture anyone on "objectivity."; 8:44 PM
Randinho said...: And just for the record, I believe a fundamental understanding of the US Constitution should be a requirement for the position of POTUS or VPOTUS, including such basic facts such as the fact that the first amendment protects one against government suppression, not against criticism by the mainstream media.; 9:25 PM
Ulises Jorge Bidó said...: ”On the sewage system comment I note that you elided this part of my comment..”

Randinho,

Yes I did and it was not an oversight. You came up with this phony story about the people of Wasilla not having a sewage plant. I really thought that they were swimming in excrement, the poor souls. But no, they use a septic system, which are so common that one in four households in the United States use them.

So the fact that the town of Wasilla uses one type of sewage treatment instead of another is turned into an indictment against Sarah Palin, damming evidence that her selection as VP was not a good move. After that, why should I waste my time checking stories about a $15MM sports arena or a $22MM debt?

BTW, great article about the oil pipeline and I apologize for missing it. My main information sources are Google News and Memeorandum.com and if they don’t flag it, I probably don’t see it. I read the whole thing and I notice that you excluded this (emphasis mine):

”Several important requirements in the legislation were unpalatable to the big oil companies. In the talks under Murkowski, the firms asked that the rates for the gas production tax and royalties be fixed for 45 years; Palin refused to consider setting rates for that long.

Under the Palin process, the pipeline firms had an advantage because they simply pass along taxes paid by oil and gas producers.

Oil company officials warned lawmakers they wouldn't participate under those terms. Still, IN A NEAR UNANIMOUS vote, the Legislature passed the Alaska Gasline Inducement Act in May 2007, generally as written by Palin's pipeline team.”

I guess my partisan fervor prevents me from seeing that both governor Palin and the Alaska legislature are a bunch of enablers for corrupt oil companies, right? Regarding me lecturing you about objectivity, I was specifically referring to your comment about Palin “generally incurious nature”. Or have you actually met her…?; 12:33 AM
Ulises Jorge Bidó said...: ”…the first amendment protects one against government suppression, not against criticism by the mainstream media.”

Really…? Obama knows that?; 12:58 AM
Paul said...: Randinho,

Whatever the merits of your pipeline argument, you've obviously researched it more than I have, it reminds me alot of Obama's almost billion dollar earmark record.

According to the Chicago Tribune: "Among the pork-barrel spending requests Barack Obama has made since arriving in the U.S. Senate is $1 million for the hospital where his wife worked at the time and $8 million for weapons technology made by a big defense contractor with close ties to a major fundraiser."

Crony socialism, Randinho? The Chicago Way.

Obama running for #1.
Palin running for #2.; 10:41 AM
Paul said...: "Being cited by her own state for abusing her authority in the troopergate scandal."

I would have done the same thing. Perhaps you think cops who taser 10 year olds, threaten peoples lives, and drive with beer in the squad car, are no big deal?

"Her ability to throw her mentors to the dogs (e.g., she was a board member of Ted Stevens 527)."

The convicted criminal Ted Stevens?? Loyalty to him would have been a virtue? You cannot be serious. And as Ulises mentioned, Obama did the same thing with his "this is not the Rev. Wright I thought I knew" speech.; 10:47 AM
Randinho said...: After that, why should I waste my time checking stories about a $15MM sports arena or a $22MM debt?

Unimpressive dodge on your part. By the way, living in Florida, I'm sure you're experience with septic tanks in cold climates is limited. Here's a pdf file on technical standards in septic tanks in British Columbia. The key part dealing with cold water is on page 98:

Cold temperatures retard the metabolism of the bacteria resident in a septic tank. Those bacteria reduce the volume of settable solids. Therefore, in cold climates there is less reduction of the volume of solids in septic tanks by bacteria, and as a result, solids accumulation within septic tanks in cold climates tends to be greater and tanks often need to be pumped out more often than in warmer climates.

A community that is an exurb of the largest city in the state, it seems to me would be well served by investing money in a treatment plant in lieu of a sports arena than expecting its residents to dig through snow and frozen ground on a more frequent basis to pump out septic tanks. Otherwise, you may be quite right and they may very well be swimming in excrement.

The convicted criminal Ted Stevens?? Loyalty to him would have been a virtue?

Did I say that loyalty to him was a virtue? Let me dumb it down for you: she talks out of both sides of her mouth. One the hand, she paints herself as a reformer, but on the other hand, she has supped at the laps of the corrupt.

Sorry if I didn't make that clear before. I noticed you both ignored her serial lies about the Bridge to Nowhere.

Ulises, regarding kicking off the Washington Times from the campaign plane, did anyone in the Obama campaign cite threats to the first amendment? If you want to bring up instances like that, by all means do so. pot, kettle, black!; 12:40 PM

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